Making Modern Warfare: COD4 Interview

As Call of Duty 4 hits stores, we bring you this behind the scenes launch feature with Infinity Ward president Grant Collier, producer Mark Rubin, and military advisor Hank Keirsey, for some interesting views on the politics and production of Modern Warfare - real-world, and in-game.

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Part 2: Hank Keirsey, Army Lieutenant (Ret.), Military Advisor for COD series

Kikizo: How did you enjoy the COD4 launch party?

Keirsey: It was excellent. Excellent. I would have preferred a little more hard liquor. I like to start off with beer and then I go to bourbon. It's part of the American culture. There's one county in Kentucky that's allowed to brew and make whisky and call it bourbon. And for some reason I'm a fan of it.

Kikizo: They had some beer there that was 2.5% volume. What is that all about?

Hank Keirsey, military advisor for Call of Duty 4

Keirsey: It's not right. I thought only Americans did crap like that. Surely not right. There's a thing called near-beer. Maybe it was that. It tasted good, no problem - but the old rule is, any beer is better than no beer. In my many deployments in my life, we have this crazy policy in the American Army, when you're deployed to combat, you can't drink. What's up with THAT?! People have been drinking in combat forever. You read about guys in Normandy jumping into a bottle of scotch. Common practise. But now we've got all anal about drinking.

Kikizo: We know you are advising on the military side with the game, but can you tell us about your military background first?

Keirsey: My dad was in the army, I liked the army; it looked good. I joined the military in 72, West Point, graduated West Point in 76, I was an Infantry Lieutenant and then deployed as a platoon leader into the 82nd Airborne division, stayed there most of my life, advanced through ranks to colonel, went to the Gulf War, and then got out in 2000 and taught military history at West Point, and taught World War II which put me in a good position to advise for the earlier Call of Duty games. I've been back to Iraq twice as a contractor, I have another place with a British firm that goes off on security missions in Africa. I'm still in the game, but in a different way.

Kikizo: What typically would be one's motivation for going into the army at a young age?

Keirsey: That's a good point. I think recently, watching two planeloads of crazy terrorists slam into the World Trade Center, become foremost in the kids' minds, that real Americans want to go find them and have justice administered. So I think that was a big impetus right after that for recruitment to do what has to be done to protect the country; we become naïve and forget that it could happen again someday. There are still guys who are just very patriotic and want to go out and serve their country. There's some lure from recruitment with technology and all that garbage. But in the end, I think what gets most of them is the chance to get out of the rut they're in, get out of the darn Burger King, go out and see the world and server their country, and I won't have to say I shovelled shit in Louisiana during the great war on terror, and I feel good about it, now get me another damn beer. I bet it makes YOU want to get out there and fight, doesn't it?

Kikizo: Well - it makes me want a beer! But what I think is interesting is the way that entertainment, whether it's TV shows like 24, or Metal Gear Solid in videogames - there are sort of two camps if you like. Sometimes their story looks at the conspiratorial side, with the Iraq war for example that it's an Oil War, and other times it's all gung-go and quite squeaky clean pro America politics. Where do you think COD4 sits?

Keirsey: That's an excellent question. And god bless both our countries that we hate war, and god bless us we have a free press, because they're the guarantors of liberty. Sometimes you wonder in the sloppiness of our democracy and the banter back and forth, that we don't harm ourselves in certain ways, because you know, nobody can beat the British and American soldiers in the field, man to man, face to face, weapon to weapon. It's the way it is now. It's the pact "Britannica Americana". It can't be done. Except, you've got to find the Achilles heel. And insurgency is a national will to continue the fight, and the national will is so fragile. And the media, god bless their souls, hammer constantly at these things that make news. Those things that make news are not be a great story about food being resupplied to a community in Iraq or a hospital. It's a bomb or a marine went in and shot a bunch of civilians, those American marines are crazy... no, all the other marines that are over there, 40,000 deployed are doing great work. And slowly the American and British resolve... [imitates British accent] there's been no bombing in London, why the hell are we in Iraq? It's some conspiracy I say! We might as well let crazy people have all the bloody oil. Let's go back and have some tea. [imitation ends]. That's not the way it is, but ... I probably got off track.

Kikizo: But that's where FOX News comes in right, because they're there waving the flag.

Keirsey: Well FOX is probably on the other extreme. I don't like FOX, but I watch it, I go, OK let's see the balance? So there is, on both sides - what we need is intelligent people that can go through this and politicians that rise above the damn crap. There's a political campaign going on, but right now we've got soldiers in the field, I don't think it would be correct or conscionable for me to criticise in any profound way, because I want to show the face of national resolve and the little bastards who want to blow us up aren't going to get their way. We don't submit as Brits and Americans, we go on and on and we finish it, we don't go into a fifteen round fight and throw in a frickin' towel in the tenth round. We finish the fight. I probably hit a line from a game that's not Call of Duty there, thank god we're not on the air!

Kikizo: So what is that makes the likes of the SAS the best guys out there?

Keirsey: In every army, you've got kind of elite echelons, and you need all the echelons. It's like having tools. You've got an unclear situation, you need to develop it, you need to break something or crack down doors; you've got to figure out where the structure is. We now have a very deep component and if we take this out, the machine will fail. We need somebody with the surgical skill for this component. The hostage rescue guys, the SAS - very finely tuned ops, usually characterised by a great deal of intelligence. They don't go into a sloppy situation, they build mock-ups, they have practised this for hours, they've got people on the site. It's surgical and it's highly trained with weapons of all skills. He's going to keep his cool and when it's time to move he moves. These are the guys who can handle it. Your guys have always been good with your SAS. SEALS, same kind of stuff, our special forces.

Kikizo: This must have been more exciting for you, because you have modern warfare experience and you were not in World War II?

Keirsey: I was actually reluctant to go modern day, even though it's come off well, [because] I taught World War II and I like talking to the veterans who help put stories together for the game. And I realise in another five years, there won't be any of them left to talk about it. They're all 87, just now lucid enough to tell a story. A kid sitting in his basement might not know that the 50th Division landed at Normandy and all the great sacrifices that were made, the battle around Cannes, the SAS work, if it had not been for a couple of the games. They learn and appreciate of legacy of courage and honour that was the British Army and American Army in World War II, and they might go back to their great grandfather before he passes into the long night and say, hey, what weapon were you carrying, where were you at again, what regiment were you in again?

And that means a lot.

Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare is out now on Xbox 360, PlayStation 3, PC and Nintendo DS. Look out for our final verdict next week.

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