Interview: Andy Payne, Mastertronic, ELSPA

We talk exclusively to the boss of budget gaming leader Mastertronic, who also happens to be on the board at ELSPA. Sizable agenda includes 1990s Sega, Sold Out, console budget space, cash for reviews, piracy, illegal downloads, clueless executives - and Manhunt.

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People's Choice?

Kikizo: From a marketing point of view the PC Gamer Presents range seems really positive - looking at the '80% and above' system, and the '100,000 units and above' system for the M.A.D. range, why is it significant and is it something customers can trust?

Payne: Well there are two schools of thought on that; you have got the reviewer's choice, and the people's choice. So if we talk about the reviewer's choice, if you are talking to someone who's in the business but doesn't play games - and there are lots of those - then I will say, think about film and music - the critics can award the film 105 Palme D'Ors and maybe half an Oscar or whatever, doesn't mean it's necessarily going to be the film for you, or mean it's going to be a great film. It means that the people who are paid to review these things particularly appreciated it. And sometimes there is a lot of reverse snobbery or psychology going on, but if critics review something well, then generally, it's going to be reasonable stuff.

In the case of PC Gamer, which is still the biggest selling PC games magazine in the country, it is known that they are harsh on reviewing, so to get anywhere over 80% is quite significant. Future's reader surveys showed that a lot of their readers used the review score as their kind of plum line point to purchase, whereas the words that were written in the review quite often the key. But having done 15 PC Gamer Presents titles in 2004, and having had to sit there and personally write all the box copy, it's sometimes quite hard to find any positive words about a game at all when you read the PC Gamer review, even though it scored 80% or higher. And it's because the reviewers generally review from the position of experience; they think they know hat they are talking about, they are working from their idea of perfection, and like a sculptor chips away, they start with 100% in their mind and then they don't add anything, they just take away. They tend to review like that, the take away instead of build up. So that's the reviewer's choice.

Kikizo: The review scores are actually on front of the PC Gamer Presents boxes in big numbers. While I'm not sure it's as relevant to PCG, how do you think recent controversies about cash for review scores harms the perception of the value of this stuff?

Payne: It can certainly harm the perception, but the reality is that all the review have been done for those products in the past, before we even dreamed up the idea of the range, so that stuff was already in the bag. Going forward of course, people could say that Mastertronic would work with Future to boost review scores because they signed those titles up. But that's not going to happen. I mean, the editorial versus the commercial side of the magazines, as you probably know, they fight like pigs really because they don't want to be told to do anything other than give it their best shot. I find the whole cash for review thing unsavoury. But with our range thus far it's not been possible anyway because it's all been reviewed ages ago, so ask me again in a couple of years!

Kikizo: What would you say about the position of your competitors like Empire's Explosive range, and whatever it is that Virgin's Whitelabel is up to?

Payne: The Whitelabel thing is finished. Virgin as a company in software is all but over, so Whitelabel is probably still available to but and it was a very successful range, sold by Adam [Pritchard, from Mastertronic] actually, and Peter [Ball, from Sold Out], and the reason it died was because it used up all of Virgin's back catalogue, did a really good job of it, and then started to license in from other publishers, who then saw Virgin's market share leap up, one of which was EA. EA was after the number one spot so they stopped selling them the rights, so the product offering that the Whitelabel could have got less and less because it could only republish Virgin's own stuff which was running out.

Explosive is owned by Empire, and there's a bit of that as well, they've got their own products they can put on there without any licensing issues, but when they have to buy in other titles, they are contributing possibly to other publishers' market share. Other than that, you know, Empire has been around a long time, and done a very good job [smiles]. Their current marketing ploy is to put a free product inside every £4.99 game, so it's kind of even more of a giveaway really.

Kikizo: Empire has done stuff recently with Sega - is that an exclusive relationship?

Payne: That's how it is at the moment! They have done some decent business with Sega. One particular Sonic product is always high in the charts because it's a 99p offering and because it's given away with every GAME Reward Card. They have a relationship with Sega and they announced recently that they are extending the relationship, but only with products they have already signed - but of course, there are all the new products that Sega has signed that are up for negotiation, so we'll see!

Console Value

Kikizo: What do you make of the console value area and is that something you guys would look to get involved with?

Nintendo is pretty non-existent in terms of republishing, while Xbox has got their Classics at £20, with plans to look at having a range, but that range would be maybe in the next 12-15 months, and they don't know yet how they're doing to do it. We've been speaking to them about doing it, and I am sure other people have been speaking to them about it as well, so who knows. But in terms of Sony, there isn't really a Sold Out or Mastertronic in there. The Explosive label has signed up some old Sega junk to put out, with a few of their own titles, so they do have a range of sorts, then you have other value publishers like Play It, which is all pretty much original concept rather than licensed.

Kikizo: And given the basic licensing cost that you'd have to pay the console manufacturers themselves, does that mean there's not much money left for anyone afterwards?

Payne: There is less money percentage-wise than there is on PC, and the cost of goods is higher, so the risk is bigger when you put it into the market. But it depends on the console manufacturers changing their charging structure, because obviously if you make games you have to go through their manufacturing sources, so there is a royalty attached to the cost of the goods on manufacturing. So unless they lower those, it's not possible to make any money there.

Kikizo: Back on the PC side of things, would you say the budget range is for hardcore or casual gamers?

Payne: Both, I think. The PC Gamer Presents range, generally, out of the 15 titles that have come out, I would say at least ten of those titles are absolute top quality games, and the other ones are where the reviewer decided that they really enjoyed it, and maybe aren't so classic, or whatever. The MAD range is a bit more casual, by a degree of the titles it has really. I am not sure if they're casual or hardcore - I think they're just good games if you have the right PC spec and you understand how that all works, and you give it time, it's something for everyone really!

Cheap Thrills

Kikizo: You just recently announced your February line-up - what are the highlights, for anyone looking to get their hands on some ten quid filth?

Payne: Prisoner of War is a very decent game. TOCA Race Driver is an excellent game, as most Codemasters titles are. We don't have much in the way of driving out there within our range; I think we only have Colin McRae and Driver. Driver is old now, but has still sold very well.

Kikizo: And looking at the Mastertronic back catalogue, which is your favourite title?

Payne: I think probably Command and Conquer, or Operation Flashpoint. Operation Flashpoint is still a really, really good game. We've just updated that with all the various mission discs, Red Hammer is in there, and whatever the other ones are called, and all the patches of course - so it runs slightly better than the original.

Kikizo: The support aspect is quite important isn't it, to look after customers after the purchase. Is that something that's expensive to run well?

Payne: Yes it's important and yes it's expensive. It costs more money to service one person who has a problem with their game than you make from the unit, not only in profit on the game, but turnover on the game. You know, each call costs in excess of £5 to deal with, that's what it really costs. But then again, if you can prevent someone from taking it back and get them to see that they can get some enjoyment out of the game, then that's good. And plus if you help them properly, they might get a good feeling about the company and may take the brand and go and buy something else in the range. All this business that you can't get support contacts, and that you have to deal with a call centre in India - that's just not our philosophy at all. It costs money, but it doesn't cost that much money to do the job properly. I'd like to think that we do the job properly, but you know...

Continue Through Interview:

• Page 1: Mastertronic
• Page 2: Selling Out
• Page 3: Making Money
• Page 4: Cheap Thrills
• Page 5: ELSPA