Interview: Andy Payne, Mastertronic, ELSPA

We talk exclusively to the boss of budget gaming leader Mastertronic, who also happens to be on the board at ELSPA. Sizable agenda includes 1990s Sega, Sold Out, console budget space, cash for reviews, piracy, illegal downloads, clueless executives - and Manhunt.

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ELSPA

Kikizo: Something else we were interested in about yourself is being one of the board members at ELSPA - how's all that going?

Payne: Very well! I am responsible, believe it or not, working with the government - the Department of Trade and Industry, and the development community, TIGA. What has been saddening is the difficulty that most developers are in, all over the place, and certainly in the UK. When you see people like Climax starting to non-climax, you know that there are real problems now. Because they are traditionally a strong developer with strong products, well run, and pretty well financed, and when they start having to consolidate, you know there are problems. Let alone people like Argonaut having gone out of business, and probably turning up as something else, and before HotGen going.

ELSPA: "definitely not people sitting around nodding"

Whereas perhaps two years ago, several key people in the development community were saying, there's only one way forward and that's so-called 'super developers' - they've gone that way, and unfortunately they're still seen to be too expensive, too unreliable - and not American. So when most of the contracts are being put in place by the American companies, it ain't too clever to understand that this stuff is going to be based in America most of the time. Or it'll be Japanese, based in Japan. There is not much real future for super developers in the UK it seems, and that's a problem.

Let me qualify that - most people who buy games as gifts, which is a lot of people, firstly have no idea what they are buying, and if they do have an idea, they have no idea about the content. So if your aunt knows that you have a PS2 and that you want San Andreas for Christmas, they won't even know that the 18 sticker on the front or the back even means anything. Whereas in films, it does - it's been rammed home though films, because it's an older business; the certification and censorship sides of things have been in place for years. When people go to the cinema and it says this is a PG... I mean, I don't even know the classes of films any more, when I was a kid it was U, A, AA and X, I think - but because I was over 18 and I don't have kids, it doesn't matter what the rating is. But in games, the age rating system is there, it's properly administered, it's self-certified by the business, it's been responsibly handled. But consumers don't know about it. So consequently, when this Manhunt thing gets quoted as basically Take 2 peddling pornographic filth that corrupts children's minds, well maybe they are - but it's not their fault that it's been bought for the child in the first place.

And the piracy aspect also doesn't help things at all. It's kind of a double-edged sword. Firstly piracy is still seen to be wrong, and I agree it is wrong, and secondly if somebody is getting a pirated copy, there is no age rating on it anyway! So that's been interesting. And ELSPA is doing loads of other things as well, which we'd need ten hours to go into. But ELSPA has always been seen to be some kind of fuddy-duddy bunch of guys all sitting around, nodding and doing nothing, but having worked there for four years now - and you don't get paid, it's just like a non-exec position - I can tell you, it's definitely not people sitting around nodding. People sit around a table arguing quite a lot, about different positions in the company, politics, and what Activision may feel, and EA might feel something different, all under the goal of doing the best for the industry as a collective body.

Kikizo: And ELSPA's profile has been raised quite a lot recently, especially with that new logo and everything...

Payne: Significantly raised... a new logo always helps! A logo designed by accident, yep that helps. It's been raised, and also moving to London helps, from some sort of backwater in Worcestershire, it helps to be in London. And I'd like to think that people serving on the board have actually got a bit more invigorated and a bit more vocal about what they're doing. EGN helped. And having a PR agency that is part of the industry rather than outside it, means that at least within the industry, people have some idea what ELSPA does.

Most of the publishers pay quite a lot of money to be a part of ELSPA. And as the publishing business has continued to be more consolidated, the companies are getting bigger - and the contribution paid to ELSPA for your fee is geared around turnover, so EA and Activision are paying £50,000 to £60,000 per year to be part of ELSPA, so they want to know what they've spent that money on! And half of the ELSPA budget goes to the anti-piracy unit, which is geared around car boot sales and illegal copies. The problem we are facing now is the Internet download fiasco. And I have to say, some publishers sit there and say, "oh, well it's not a problem because the products are all too big", and it's like, whenever you're going to wake up guys - size is not the issue here.

Kikizo: Someone from ELSPA argued recently that it's too difficult for most people to actually get the downloads working.

The next wave of PC Gamer Presents titles hit shelves in February. Visit the Mastertronic website here. We'd like to thank Andy for his time and wish him all the best with things at Mastertronic, Sold Out and ELSPA.

Continue Through Interview:

• Page 1: Mastertronic
• Page 2: Selling Out
• Page 3: Making Money
• Page 4: Cheap Thrills
• Page 5: ELSPA